The Ohio State University "Die-In"
Apr. 14th, 2005 @ 08:18 am
The Post, the student newspaper at Ohio State University, carried a letter from Marc Fencil, a senior who is also a Marine currently stationed in Iraq, that is so excellent the Wall Street Journal's "Best of the Web" section reprinted it:
It's a shame that I'm here in Iraq with the Marines right now and not back at Ohio University completing my senior year and joining in blissful ignorance with the enlightened, war-seasoned protesters who participated in the recent "die-in" at College Gate. It would appear that all the action is back home, but why don't we make sure? That's right, this is an open invitation for you to cut your hair, take a shower, get in shape and come on over! If Michael Moore can shave and lose enough weight to fit into a pair of camouflage utilities, then he can come too!
Make sure you all say your goodbyes to your loved ones though, because you won't be seeing them for at least the next nine months. You need to get here quick because I don't want you to miss a thing. You missed last month's discovery of a basement full of suicide vests from the former regime (I'm sure Saddam's henchmen just wore them because they were trendy though). You weren't here for the opening of a brand new school we built either. You might also notice women exercising their new freedom of walking to the market unaccompanied by their husbands.
There is a man here, we just call him al-Zarqawi, but we think he'd be delighted to sit down and give you some advice on how you can further disrespect the victims of Sept. 11 and the 1,600 of America's bravest who have laid down their lives for a safer world. Of course he'll still call you "infidel" but since you already agree that there is no real evil in the world, I see no reason for you to be afraid. Besides, didn't you say that radical Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance?
I'm warning you though -it's not going to be all fun and games over here. You might have bad dreams for the next several nights after you zip up the body bag over a friend's disfigured face. I know you think that nothing, even a world free of terror for one's children, is worth dying for, but bear with me here. We're going to live in conditions you've never dreamt about. You should get here soon though, because the temperatures are going to be over 130 degrees very soon and we will be carrying full combat loads (we're still going to work though). When it's all over, I promise you can go back to your coffee houses and preach about social justice and peace while you continue to live outside of reality.
If you decide to decline my offer, then at least you should sleep well tonight knowing that men wearing black facemasks and carrying AK-47s yelling "Allahu Akbar" over here are proud of you and are forever indebted to you for advancing their cause of terror. While you ponder this, I'll get back to the real "die-in" over here. I don't mind.
Thank you for posting that. That Marine could not have said it better. Too bad when they read it they won't think anything of it and just go on bitching and whining.
Good entry there and thanks for posting it.
So we should let the terrorism continue rather than try and do something about it? The facts are out there. First, Saddam Hussein didn't follow the UN resolutions that were drafted since the early 1990's. Also, back towards 1997-1998, Saddam barred the weapons inspectors by the UN that were previously permitted to enter the facilities. Remember at this time that it was Bill Clinton as the president and during the Lewinsky scandal he bombed Iraq. What was wrong with him bombing Iraq compared to us now?
I ask you these questions. Why are many in Iraq happier now that we have come in and taken Saddam out of power along with his regime? Is it that we gave them freedom? What about the torture chambers that Saddam employed when he was the leader? Didn't he kill an estimated 2-10 million people at least? How about Afghanistan? How come they are happier now that the Taliban is out of power? Also, didnt they just have their first elections last year where women could finally vote? When Bill Clinton was the president in the 1990's, how come our World Trade Center towers were bombed then and Bin Laden was allowed to walk by Sandy Berger's own admission? Why did Berger steal national archived documents?
I think these questions that I am raising here do make a lot of sense. No offense to you but I think you are listening too much to the media which is partisan to the liberal agenda.
What facts do you have to back up the liberals then? I'd like to see your facts. If you think liberalism is so great, prove it.
Anything that I brought up when talking to you earlier, feel free to prove. I'm not going to go into a huge argument about things bc that isnt what this community is about. I'm just interested in seeing why you think the way you do. Any of the questions that I first posed to you...feel free to argue them.
Had to take out some garbage. Nothing is wrong with a lil debating but saying GOdamn and insulting others is not a debate so welcome our first ban.
|Date:||April 19th, 2005 08:12 pm (UTC)|| |
heh, it's cute to ban people who point out facts that contridict your point. slick.
One its not my point i had no investment in this conversation. Two this person came in with out showing a bit of respect. YOu can debate and still be respectfull. All you have to do is be nice and play nice and you are welcome in this community. We are completely obvious that we are a right leaning community but we will welcome not right leaning people if you are respeactful and not a troll.
|Date:||April 19th, 2005 08:23 pm (UTC)|| |
I apologize for the swearing and the "insult," but banning me and deleting ALL my posts is quite unneeded. Unless, of course, it was because my posts contridicted the official line on the war in Iraq.
|Date:||April 20th, 2005 12:11 am (UTC)|| |
point remains that its totally illogical to delete 3 posts when only one contained an "insult" or a swear word. Certainly you could have requested that in the future I not swear.
Jonbreaks- I asked you these questions in a prior response to you. Why are many in Iraq happier now that we have come in and taken Saddam out of power along with his regime? Is it that we gave them freedom? What about the torture chambers that Saddam employed when he was the leader? Didn't he kill an estimated 2-10 million people at least? How about Afghanistan? How come they are happier now that the Taliban is out of power? Also, didnt they just have their first elections last year where women could finally vote? When Bill Clinton was the president in the 1990's, how come our World Trade Center towers were bombed then and Bin Laden was allowed to walk by Sandy Berger's own admission? Why did Berger steal national archived documents?
After leaving this reply, you sent this:
44000-98000 deaths annually from medical malpractice http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
100,000 dead civilians, Johns Hopkins study www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/
500,000 dead children as a direct result of economic sanctions http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human_Rights/Iraq_Sanctions.html
the part about WMD's is common knowledge.
I beleive I addressed your questions.
Remind me again why the war in Iraq is a good thing?
I did not ask you questions on medical malpractice, dead civilians, economic sanctions and WMD's. Please if you are going to answer and discuss, stick to the questions asked rather than go off in a tangent.
|Date:||April 20th, 2005 02:47 am (UTC)|| |
hmm..I was pretty sure you asked for my sources, thus I posted them.
Why are Iraqis happier?-
who says they are? I mean are you just guessing or do you have any facts to back up your claim? I assume they are because Sadaam is gone but they certainly arent happy that we are there.
What about Sadaam's torture chambers?
Indeed, what about them?
Didn't he kill 2-10 million people?
Well, I don't have the numbers in front of me, it's certainly possible. what about the 600,000+ dead iraqi civilians directly related to us?
what about afghanistan?
I don't remember opposing the war in Afghanistan.
Didnt they have their first election?
Yes, but we had a meaningless election too, remember the election of 2000? Where bush was pretty much appointed by the Supreme Court? What makes elections the greatest? They have to be fair. When entire sections of a country cannot vote and some people vote 8 times and you have a low turnout its not much of an election. It's a step in the right direction, but its not a big one.
How come Bin Laden was allowed to walk?
Well, the 9/11 commission disagrees with that statement, but whatever. What happened in Afghanistan when Bin Laden was trapped by coalition forces and he was allowed to get away? It cuts both ways, people make mistakes, but I'm not sure Bin Laden was allowed to get away from Clinton, at least according to the 9/11 comm.
why did Berger steal documents?
Well, I do beleive he was cleared of wrong doing, but I don't know what his motivation was.
Since I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine
What about the WMD's? What about the 100,000 civilian casualties? What about alternative motives for going to Iraq, like oil? what about 9 billion dollars that are unaccounted for? What about Haliburton?
What about the WMD's?
Many sources of intelligence which included the US, Britain and Russia had reason to believe that there were WMD's. Now, chemicals had been found in several factories that could be used to produce weapons. Were any weapons necessarily built? No. Was there the capability? Yes, and UN resolutions that had been in place were not enforcable since Saddam Hussein didnt care about them whatsoever. That is why finally in 1998 that Saddam decided to close off his factories to the UN inspectors. If you were running a country right there and your neighbor was an enemy and could create problems with weapons, wouldnt you want to know what is there and prevent before saying what could have been?What about the 100,000 civilian casualties?
I am not denying that there have been civilian casualties, and you and me can both agree that we dont like to see civiilans die. However, war does have its tolls. You've got to remember that there has been a lot of insurgent activity over there. Have we killed some civilians accidentally? I'd be lying if I said no we didnt. We have accidentally killed some civilians. However, insurgents like Al-Zarqawi and his organization have kidnapped civilians and in some cases like Nick Berg and a Korean citizen, beheaded them. I did see it and all I can say is that it is a very gruesome and painful way to be killed, and Berg was totally screaming in pain and agony when he was having his head sawed off with a knife blade. Are civilian casualties bad? Yes. Are we doing what we can to try and prevent them? Yes, we are doing what we can. Are the insurgents doing what they can to prevent them? They dont care...just check out an Al-Jazerra news clip where they are kidnapping people and holding guns to their head and theres your answer.What about alternative motives for going to Iraq, like oil?
Ah, oil is the classic question that all liberal teachers, liberal college professors and liberals in general use. Historically, the US is going to be one of the nations that protects its interests. Yes, we do import a lot of oil from the middleeast, but also do so from Canada and we have our own refineries both in the Gulf and soon to be Alaska where there is a rich source that can be used for reserves. Here is some information that could give you a better perspective, and I apologize if this gets too long or starts to go off. Typically England and the US are big allies. England is our last line of defense in the Atlantic, and we are the line of defense in the Pacific. Therefore anything that will affect our allies will have us on close watch and if we need to step in, we do, and that has occured historically.
We do have several interests in this conflict. Relations is the biggest in my opinion. If there is a stable country are groups of stable countries, it does help everyone, not just us. Now, we do have a mixed economy which provides for a free market under some governmental control. Essentially supply and demand control this. Now, do we export oil? Yes, and I have stated that. However, globalization has occurred since the 1970's and countries will leverage their best assets and work with countries to help out. An example...we do import oil, we export many things as well. It is all about competitive advantage. Oil is not a factor in my opinion though. All the oil we want, we already get. We really do need to improve the relations. After all, the jihad hates us and the middle east has typically hated our freedoms. That is the nice thing we have...even though you and me disagree politically, we probably do have some similar things in common. Also, we do have the freedom to express these differences while they stick to old regimes. We should be lucky to have that ability.
what about 9 billion dollars that are unaccounted for?
Last I remember, the 9 billion dollars that is unaccounted for is part of the United Nations and the Oil for Food program, which is extremely corrupt. The scandal involves France, Germany, Russia, China, the UN, and several middle eastern countries including Iran and Iraq.What about Haliburton?
Ok, most everyone in the democratic party always brings this up. As you know, Haliburton is a transnational company based in the US that specializes in this type of contract work. It has many divisions and you have probably used their equipment before. For example...gas stations that use Wayne branded gas pumps...its part of Dresser company which is a subsidiary of Haliburton. Anyways, the reason that Haliburton is used in most contracts is because they have historically had the most experience with what is taking place. They were used in Operation Desert Storm to help rebuild in the early 1990's and have a long history with both the democratic and republican parties. There is only 1 other company in the world that I know of that remotely comes close, which is Schlumberger which is based out of France yet has a sizeable US presense. Both companies have worked together before, but Schlumberger has outsourced portions of contracts to Haliburton in the past.
Haliburton was used to help rebuild after the 1991 Gulf War (Bush 41) and Bill Clinton also employed them many times in the middle east using no-bid contracts which created overruns by the democratic administration at the time. If it is so bad to use Haliburton, why wasn't anyone complaining to Bill Clinton and the democrats about using Haliburton?? It's not a matter of political favors...it is just using who is most qualified and has the best depth of knowledge for these types of jobs, which in this case is Haliburton.
How come Bin Laden was allowed to walk? Well, the 9/11 commission disagrees with that statement, but whatever. What happened in Afghanistan when Bin Laden was trapped by coalition forces and he was allowed to get away? It cuts both ways, people make mistakes, but I'm not sure Bin Laden was allowed to get away from Clinton, at least according to the 9/11 comm.
I think you forgot to mention Jamie Goerilick, who created "the wall" between the CIA and the FBI. In the mid 1990's, she was in charge yet prohibited the communication between these organizations. Now yes, mistakes do happen. However the intentional seizure to communicate...not a good idea there. The CIA is the off-country agency that provides intelligence we need to know, and the FBI works stateside. Both agencies need to communicate with each other to be effective. Do you think that creating "the wall" made sense? Also, why was Jamie Goerilick allowed to be on the 9/11 commission when she was part of the problem in gathering intelligence?
Why is it that everyone is sooo hung up liberal this and conservative that? Do those titles mean much? As a member of an extremely service oriented family (I leave for basic this summer myself) I believe that one should always support men and women who take the initiative to join the military. However, an important part of that support is making certain to question the government as to how well troops are being supplied to complete a mission, what the mission is REALLY supposed to accomplish, and whether or not said mission is worth the number of casualties. While I am familiar with the basic issues at hand concerning current events in the middle east, the sad part is that I had to rely on my own research to find out. The officials that I VOTED INTO OFFICE havent bothered to leave me with much further than horrible vague and unintelligible data. One thing I really dont understand is where those vests and AK-47'S came from... Even in the Iraqi hayday of the 80's and 90's, the country didnt seem industrialized to the point of being capable to internally produce such weaponry (but thats just my opinion). Another question to ask is why Islam (which translates as "peace") has developed a radical sect hell bent on the destruction of the west beginning with our military? Such an atmosphere as the one described by the Marine has the smell of squalor... much like the squalor of Liberian citizens who faught a civil war over a BRIDGE so that food and supplies could be syphoned into the country. (We caused this)
Or how about the mess in Sierra Leone (our British friends caused this). How about Rwanda? We all are spellbound by this now that a motion picture has been created, but I recall having seen this on the news daily when I was in middle school. So America was aware, but really chose to do nothing. Haiti is a really good one. People living in poverty tend to be a little bit radical, especially when they are RIGHT NEXT to the US and recieve little support. But our military deployed units on a potentially DEADLY mission to remove their president as opposed to passing supplies out in the slums, or warding of rebels. I gotta go.... my ride is here. But I do have a point that I want to make and it neither serves to bitch or to bash, but to stop finger pointing and generate question asking. Semper Fi to the Marine, and thank you for your service.